Bush Targets Iran in Speech, Implies Military Action

[KDSM]

[Luke]

Frankly I think Bush's stand on Iran is right. If Iran completes their obvious move toward nuclear weaponry, the other nations of the Middle East will have no choice but to develop nukes of their own. If any Middle Eastern nation becomes a nuclear power, I see no other future but a deadly nuclear deadlock on the Middle East. Iran must not get nuclear weapons. How is this to be stopped? Sanctions probably won't work as the Iranian government doesn't seem to care tremendously about their economy and I don't expect Eastern nations like Russia and China to heed sanctions very well. Diplomatic pressure is obviously not working. I really don't see any other way to prevent Iranian nukes but war. Yet the many many complications that could result from an invasion of Iran, as well as the sheer horribleness of war, is not something I want to see. Do I approve of armed conflict with Iran? To be honest I have no idea what is best as yet.

It cannot be denied that Iran and Syria are assisting insurgents and foreign fighters entering Iraq. If their governments are not actively helping them, they're surely not cracking down on them. Cities like Husaybah, on the Syria-Iraq border, are major hotspots for fighters entering Iraq, most of them non-Iraqi in nationality. Many of the fighters in Iraq, and most of the coordinators, strategists, recruiters, in essence the highly important people in the insurgent network that have been captured or killed and identified are foreign. The insurgency seems to be led by those who don't live in Iraq, necessarily have interests in Iraq other than as a spot to conduct jihad, and those who don't have other strong ties to Iraq. This flow of foreign fighters is coming from or traveling through Iran and Syria, chiefly, and it must be stopped to stop the insurgency. We have the option of leaving this task up to a struggling young government and its people or doing it ourselves. I think we have a better chance of succeeding.

[jafar00]

[quote=Luke]
Frankly I think Bush's stand on Iran is right. If Iran completes their obvious move toward nuclear weaponry, the other nations of the Middle East will have no choice but to develop nukes of their own.
[/quote]

How is it obvious Iran is developing Nuclear weapons? Has any actual evidence of this been revealed? Is it anything more than just hot air from Israel?

[quote=Luke]
If any Middle Eastern nation becomes a nuclear power, I see no other future but a deadly nuclear deadlock on the Middle East.
[/quote]

Israel is bristling with nuclear weapons. They haven't allowed a single inspection of their facilities and are not a signatory to the NPT. They have been allowed to develop their weapons unchecked.

[quote=Luke]
Iran must not get nuclear weapons. How is this to be stopped? Sanctions probably won't work as the Iranian government doesn't seem to care tremendously about their economy and I don't expect Eastern nations like Russia and China to heed sanctions very well. Diplomatic pressure is obviously not working. I really don't see any other way to prevent Iranian nukes but war. Yet the many many complications that could result from an invasion of Iran, as well as the sheer horribleness of war, is not something I want to see. Do I approve of armed conflict with Iran? To be honest I have no idea what is best as yet.
[/quote]

A little cooperation wouldn't hurt. It's not mentioned too much in the media that Iran previously and voluntarily allowed more stringent inpections of their facilities than is requierd of them under the NPT. That is until US/Israel started making threats.

[KDSM]

[quote=jafar00]
How is it obvious Iran is developing Nuclear weapons? Has any actual evidence of this been revealed? Is it anything more than just hot air from Israel?[/quote]

yes they have publicly admitted they are developing them and have even shown the media.


[quote=jafar00]
Israel is bristling with nuclear weapons. They haven't allowed a single inspection of their facilities and are not a signatory to the NPT. They have been allowed to develop their weapons unchecked.[/quote]

Israel does have nukes but and they wont proliferate nukes because they dont want that technology to be used against them and besides the U.S. wouldnt allow that. (yes Israel is an American puppet...so what?)


[quote=jafar00]
A little cooperation wouldn't hurt. It's not mentioned too much in the media that Iran previously and voluntarily allowed more stringent inpections of their facilities than is requierd of them under the NPT. That is until US/Israel started making threats.
[/quote]

Ok why not leave out half the story? yes they did agree to inspections but in the next breath they said they would continue to enrich uranium. The purpose of the inspections was to make sure they are not enriching uranium and to find out just how far along they are to produceing nuclear "power". why does Iran need nuclear power? they are floating on a sea of oil. if they took half of the money that they pour into nuclear technology and funding of terrorisim around the world,and put it into infrastructure the iraninan economy wouldnt be in the crapper.

[Lad]

That guy in Pakistan who sold the nuclear bomb secrets - I forget his name. The same technology he sold was found in Libya, North Korea and Iran. You can't tell me that Iran wasn't after nuclear bombs.

Israel has nuclear weapons. They have never used them and are never likely to. Iran would be likely to use them. They have already called for the end of Israel and many of the problems in Iraq are caused by Iranians who haven't forgotten the Iraq-Iran war. North Korea is surrounded by China and Japan. If they used their weapons they'd soon wish they hadn't. If Iran uses them, things would be a lot more complicated in that region.

I'm in favour of a complete wipeout of Iranian defence and weapons. I refer to ships, planes, nuclear bases and the lot. I don't want any ground invasion, but just from the air. Once they are cleaned of their defences they are pretty powerless. No need to invade and suffer high casualties with a groundforce.

[jafar00]

[quote=KDSM]
yes they have publicly admitted they are developing them and have even shown the media.
[/quote]

Got a link to that? I've not seen anything reported where they actually admit to developing weapons. Just power.

[quote=KDSM]
Israel does have nukes but and they wont proliferate nukes because they dont want that technology to be used against them and besides the U.S. wouldnt allow that. (yes Israel is an American puppet...so what?)
[/quote]

They are a dangerous, rogue nation always attacking their neighbours and never afraid to break international and humanitarian law to achieve their objectives. They should not have been allowed to develop nuclear weapons unchecked.

[quote=KDSM]
Ok why not leave out half the story? yes they did agree to inspections but in the next breath they said they would continue to enrich uranium. The purpose of the inspections was to make sure they are not enriching uranium and to find out just how far along they are to produceing nuclear "power". why does Iran need nuclear power? they are floating on a sea of oil. if they took half of the money that they pour into nuclear technology and funding of terrorisim around the world,and put it into infrastructure the iraninan economy wouldnt be in the crapper.
[/quote]

The inspections were to make sure they were just developing power, not weapons. I remember there was some very highly enriched bomb grade residue found on some of their equipment but inspectors soon discovered that was left over from some equipment purchased from Pakistan. There is also no hard proof they are funding terrorism either. That and the idea they are moving towards building weapons is pure conjecture.

[quote=Lad]
That guy in Pakistan who sold the nuclear bomb secrets - I forget his name. The same technology he sold was found in Libya, North Korea and Iran. You can't tell me that Iran wasn't after nuclear bombs. [/quote]

Iran bought nuclear weapons secrets from some pakistani guy? That's news to me.

[quote=Lad]Israel has nuclear weapons. They have never used them and are never likely to. Iran would be likely to use them. They have already called for the end of Israel and many of the problems in Iraq are caused by Iranians who haven't forgotten the Iraq-Iran war.[/quote]

Israel already has plans to use their nukes against Iran's nuclear facilities. Let me ask you this? How many countries has Iran attacked in it's history? How many countries has Israel attacked? Who is the true agressor?
Iran has not threatened Israel at all except for pledging to retaliate if Israel attacks them. If Israel is brought to an end, it will be Israel's fault, nobody elses.

[quote=Lad]I'm in favour of a complete wipeout of Iranian defence and weapons. I refer to ships, planes, nuclear bases and the lot. I don't want any ground invasion, but just from the air. Once they are cleaned of their defences they are pretty powerless. No need to invade and suffer high casualties with a groundforce.
[/quote]

For what reason would you attack Iran? Still sour grapes from when they overthrew the western appointed Shah who was a terrible tyrant? Or perhaps the attack on the US embassy? (way back in 1979 if I remember)
According to UN regulations, the US or Israel cannot attack Iran pre-emptively unless they are under threat of attack themselves. At this time they aren't. Attacking Iran would be illegal and would just add to a long list of war crimes already comitted against other people in the world.

[KDSM]

[quote=jafar00]Iran bought nuclear weapons secrets from some pakistani guy? That's news to me. [/quote]
No they were GIVEN to Iran
some links to jog your memory

NY Times

Wiki

BBC

[Lad]

Thankyou KDSM. That was the guy I was after. Khan.

Abdul Qadeer Khan, who has confessed to transferring nuclear technology to Iran and Libya, is regarded as a national hero for helping Pakistan become a nuclear state.

The man has confessed to it and asked for pardon!

yes they have publicly admitted they are developing them and have even shown the media.

Got a link to that? I've not seen anything reported where they actually admit to developing weapons. Just power.

Tell me one reason why they wouldn't. If Libya, North Korea, India, Pakistan all desired them and all have obtained them, but one. Their enemies have nukes. Common sense says they would want them. UNless Iran is stopped I believe you will live to see the day Jafar that you are wrong.

They are a dangerous, rogue nation always attacking their neighbours and never afraid to break international and humanitarian law to achieve their objectives. They should not have been allowed to develop nuclear weapons unchecked.

They have proved again and again. Don't touch us and we won't touch you. Fair deal if you ask me.

The inspections were to make sure they were just developing power, not weapons. I remember there was some very highly enriched bomb grade residue found on some of their equipment but inspectors soon discovered that was left over from some equipment purchased from Pakistan. There is also no hard proof they are funding terrorism either. That and the idea they are moving towards building weapons is pure conjecture.

Only that Iranians keep turning up in Iraq as fighters and Iranian donated missiles and rockets keep landing in Israel via Palestine.

Israel has nuclear weapons. They have never used them and are never likely to. Iran would be likely to use them. They have already called for the end of Israel and many of the problems in Iraq are caused by Iranians who haven't forgotten the Iraq-Iran war.

Israel already has plans to use their nukes against Iran's nuclear facilities. Let me ask you this? How many countries has Iran attacked in it's history? How many countries has Israel attacked? Who is the true agressor?
Iran has not threatened Israel at all except for pledging to retaliate if Israel attacks them. If Israel is brought to an end, it will be Israel's fault, nobody elses.

Israel will never use them, because as KDSM says they are a puppet of the US and would strictly obey their commands of no. They can't afford to do anything else.

For what reason would you attack Iran? Still sour grapes from when they overthrew the western appointed Shah who was a terrible tyrant? Or perhaps the attack on the US embassy? (way back in 1979 if I remember)
According to UN regulations, the US or Israel cannot attack Iran pre-emptively unless they are under threat of attack themselves. At this time they aren't. Attacking Iran would be illegal and would just add to a long list of war crimes already comitted against other people in the world.

I wouldn't attack Iran tomorrow. I would go through the UN procedure fast tracked.

[jafar00]

[quote=KDSM]
[quote=jafar00]Iran bought nuclear weapons secrets from some pakistani guy? That's news to me. [/quote]
No they were GIVEN to Iran
some links to jog your memory

NY Times

Wiki

BBC
[/quote]

None of those links mention Iran getting any Nuclear weapons, nor nuclear weapons technology, apart from the centrifuges which are surprise, surprise, dual use! You can enrich Uranium for either nuclear fuel, or for weapons.

Still, so far there is only suspicion against Iran. Not actual evidence.

Well, it seems Bush has his mind made up to attack Iran in any case and in my opinion that may actually cause something to happen that nobody has managed to do in centuries which is unite the Shia and Sunni against a common enemy.

Attacking Iran will spark off a terrible war the likes of which the world has never seen before.

[Lass]

I haven't got time to write a proper reply to this thread, but I think of it this way:

1. Is info for nuclear weapons available to Iran? Yes
2. Would Iran like to use this info? Yes; don't argue the point lol - why wouldn't they?
3. Has Iran got the ability to use this info? More than likely
4. Is there anything to stop Iran using this info? Possibly - President Bush!

So you can drawn one conclusion - yes they either have, nearly have or are trying to have, nuclear weapons. If they can proof completely that they are nt, maybe I'd think again.